July Peer Profile: "Don't Make The Sexy Money Decisions."
Last year, we started a feature on Hello HENRYs called Peer Profiles - a series in which we interviewed millennials about their approach to money + what has influenced the way they manage it. We think there is so much value in having conversations with friends about money! It shouldn’t be taboo + we guarantee that you can learn something new, even from your most financially clueless friends. We hope that our conversations inspire you to break the ice with your own peers!
For this month’s Peer Profile, we met with Maggie Lehr, a 28 year old Senior Commercial Strategy Researcher living in Seattle, WA. Maggie chatted with us over Zoom this summer to share her money mindset, how grad school influenced her financial choices, and how she manages her money without tracking her spending.
Hello HENRYs: Always our first question for any Peer Profile, what is your go-to drink?
Maggie Lehr: Just in general, I’m a huge coffee drinker - I’m very spoiled by my partner who makes great coffee. That’s usually my go-to. If I’m going out, I have been loving The Sitting Room in Lower Queen Anne - they have an awesome mix of cocktails and quesadillas. They have a fig old fashioned that is really good and you pair it with chips + guac and it’s a strange, but great combo. They have outdoor seating and every table has their own heater.
HH: OMG! That sounds incredible. Two of our favorite things - cocktails and guac! We’ll definitely have to add that to our list while we’re both in Seattle this summer. After living in the city our whole lives we always love to get a new rec!
Now to dive into the money part of our conversation - we always love to know what your parents’ attitude toward money was growing up and if you feel like that influenced you at all in your approach to money today.
ML: My family’s relationship with money, I think, hugely shaped how I currently view my finances. When I was little, even as young as 8 or 9, my parents said, “Hey, your budget for your birthday party is $150 - for cake, gift bags, etc.” I remember going to a tile painting place and pricing out items for my party. That was really helpful for giving me an important perspective on money - that it is useful and helpful, and really something that can be used to harness joy.
My parents were very much about saving money where you can and don’t worry about spending money on things that matter. So we would never go out to eat at really nice places, but if we needed something, like getting the car fixed, it was never stressful or a big deal. And every two years we would go to Hawaii, an experience that my family really valued.
HH: Okay, we love that! I feel like if we ever have kids that is totally a great practice to have when it comes to birthday parties. And honestly, we would have found that to be so fun when we were little! And what a healthy mindset around money - it really should be used as a way to bring joy, but that also takes practice.
As you mentioned, in order for money to bring joy you really do need to focus on your priorities and saving where you can, so that you have the ability to spend where it matters. It sounds like, in terms of priorities, things like dining out weren’t high on the list for your family. What would you say were your parents’ financial priorities growing up?
ML: In my family we were really blessed to have extended family close by, whereas I remember friends would travel frequently to see their families. So most of the time when we went on vacation, we’d drive somewhere or we went camping - we weren’t traveling far. I think that was something that at the time I wished we could do, but wasn’t a priority. It was much more about spending time with family and, for us, they were nearby, so travel wasn’t a necessary part of the equation.
Another priority is that my parents were always fixing up the house. There has always been a project or renovating something - trying to make it a little more comfortable for the day to day existence. My parents are the least OTT people I know. If something was causing grief, it was very quick to fix it.
HH: That’s so interesting to hear - growing up it was a priority of our parents for us to go back to Ireland to see family once a year (or every other year). Even though that was a huge international trip to experience as kids, we still had those same feelings of wanting to go somewhere else, but the priorities for our family were just different! Do you think having those family priorities at a young age has influenced you now?
ML: Yes, I spend pretty much no money on myself or by myself. I don’t think I’ve ever gone out to eat myself. The money I do spend is if a group of people want to do something. My goal is to never say no because of finances because being with people is what brings me joy.
HH: Such a great mindset and sounds like you have your priorities really set to the point where you can comfortably and reasonably spend on things that bring you joy. Which is so important! Looking back, what would you say has been your smartest financial move?
ML: When I was in grad school, I had a research assistant position that gave me a modest income, but the rule was that you can’t have any additional paid work. I took that opportunity to do unpaid internships giving me practical experience. That gave me great experience for setting myself up after grad school. So that may be more of a smart life move, but it did help set me up financially later on. In terms of a strictly financial move, probably opening a Wealthfront account in terms of an actual strategy I love. It’s been a way to save and gain capital without stress which is the general theme of my take on money.
HH: Yay! We love Wealthfront! (Click HERE if you’re interested in opening up an account of your own!) That is also such an important point to make regarding grad school. You had a future-oriented, big picture perspective and opted for experience that would serve you down the road and open up more opportunities. What would you say you learned from that experience? How was it handling a tight income while also still wanting to be social and have a good quality of life?
ML: I’m naturally very frugal, but I don’t keep a budget. I kind of had to in grad school, but making $18,000 a year will do that for you. I leaned a lot into my grad school friends because they were in the same boat. It helps that I’m used to initiating things, so it was a lot of “Hey, come over for dinner.” If you can plan ahead and initiate plans that fit within your budget, you don’t really feel as if you’re scrimping. Even if you’re cooking for 4 people, it’s often still cheaper than going out for dinner and drinks. I tried to lean into strategies where I could still be social and not spend as much.
HH: And we’ve found that it’s really about the quality time with friends not the actual activity that you’re doing - do we really need to go out and have multiple drinks or can we go for a walk and catch up, etc.? That was really highlighted for us at the beginning of COVID! And it sounds like you’ve had a similar experience as well of finding friends to be pretty responsive - especially if you’re the one initiating. Do you think that experience in grad school will follow you into this next chapter and your long term money mindset?
ML: I will probably always be frugal. There was definitely a 6-9 month adjustment after grad school where I was still so used to that limited income mindset and habits. I was still always inviting friends over as my first choice for socializing, but maybe COVID has broken that because we’re all itching to go out!
HH: Yes - especially now as the weather gets nicer everyone wants to be out! Beforehand you’d mentioned that you don’t really track your spending/budget necessarily, what would you say is your approach for managing your investment account (Wealthfront) without tracking? How do you decide what an appropriate amount to contribute will be?
ML: Everything is automated for bills. So with what’s left I know there will be spending money and investing money - I do $500/month for Wealthfront right away. After the pay cycles or the month closes, I’ll go and revisit and add whatever money was leftover to my Wealthfront account as well, as an additional contribution. When I’m spending money, I’m not thinking in terms of “Should I purchase this item or invest the money instead?” It’s more the thought process of “Do I need this?” I’m really bad at buying things. The big chunks at the end of the month are investments. I’ll buy it when I need it.
HH: We should really adopt that mentality more of “do I need it?” It also sounds like you know yourself so well as a spender and in terms of money that it really works for you to have things set up this way, which is so important when it comes to money as everyone is different and nothing will ever be one size fits all. On the flip side of things, do you have a money mistake or something you wish you had handled differently?
ML: Not negotiating. Just this year I got promoted 11 months after I started my job. My boss wanted to frame it as “congrats! This is pretty unheard of.” Realistically it’s because I probably should have been hired at that position. I’d chalk that up as a mistake which is a problem across the board with women in the workforce - not negotiating and realizing that job hunters are hurting for applicants sometimes. I got lucky that the promotion came as fast as it did - but I know that’s been a lot longer for others.
HH: Yes! That’s something we hear often (and have felt before) by women in particular. There’s this fear that if you negotiate you’re going to lose out on a job, when in reality, in almost every instance, companies expect you to negotiate and they also need and want you - it’s not just a one way situation!
Okay, so we’re curious, as you describe yourself as frugal, do you use credit cards?
ML: I’m an exclusive credit card user - maybe it’s because I’m naturally black and white. This might be my privilege talking, but I’ve never seen a difference in spending habits between my debit vs credit card because I’m never spending more than I have. The money is always coming out of my bank account. With a debit card, the money comes out now vs a credit card, 3 weeks later. I’m never worried that I would overspend. I personally took that from my parents where I would only go out to eat once a week - I’m really a planner.
HH: So true! Credit cards can really be seen as a negative, but if you’re truly using them like you would a debit card, they can be great to earn rewards! What credit cards do you use? Do you try to maximize for certain rewards? (For our credit card recommendations and referral links, click HERE.)
ML: I have an Amazon card because it’s no fee. In terms of my primary credit card, I actually just transferred. I was using the CapitalOne Venture, but I switched over to the double cash card because I don’t want to track percentages, so now it’s a low thought way to earn points. It’s purely cashback I think. I don’t want to deal with that “it’s more points, but it has to be on travel.” When I accumulate them every few months, I just put the money back on my card.
HH: Makes sense! There’s so much information out there that it can almost be a full time job in itself to “point hack” on credit cards. We love chatting with you because you just seem to have such a clear vision on your money mentality. You’ve mentioned that you live with your partner - when did you start talking about finances in your relationship?
ML: We probably started talking about money - both of us had significant loans - 2-3 months after we started dating. When I was in grad school, I was very lucky that John was more generous where he paid probably ⅔ of the rent. But now if it’s over $100, we’ll send each other a Venmo, but anything under $100 we assume it’s going to come out in the wash. We don’t have joint accounts, but we talk about how much we’re going to save for certain things. Now that he has more student loans, it allows me to put a little bit more into our house fund and he helped me out in grad school.
HH: It sounds like you have great communication to be able to be on the same page in this regard - where you clearly have a system set in place, but it’s not down to every penny. Would you say that your financial values align?
ML: I’d say he spends a little more. I probably have tailored my hobbies to be around less expensive things, whereas he is more likely to spend freely on what he wants - for example, he really likes golf. I think that’s really it. I’m also a big short term planner and John is much more of a long term planner. He was the one who initiated us to target buying a house in late 2022. So it balances out.
HH: Love that! It’s so great if you can be on the same page, but also have different strengths. We’ve talked about smart moves + mistakes so if you could give one piece of advice to readers (or to your younger self!), what would it be?
ML: I come from the academic finance world, so you’re only compensated for diversified risk. Don’t make the sexy money decisions or purchases.
HH: Readers, please, go back and read that again. Yes!! We can’t emphasize that enough. Wealth is a long game - there’s always something new and flashy or someone sharing their “get rich quick” investing scheme, but the reality is you don’t need anything sexy, you just need patience and consistency! Do you have a financial resource you love?
ML: My favorite book is called A Random Walk Down Wall Street (the first few chapters are kind of boring), but the rest of the book is about modern portfolio theory.
HH: Oh that’s a new one for us! We’ll have to add that to our summer reading list! Thank you so much for all of your advice and insight today, Maggie! We so appreciated learning more about your money journey!!
HENRYs, if you or any of your friends are interested in participating in our Peer Profiles series, please let us know!! We are always looking for a fresh perspective!!
